tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post112571123035397840..comments2024-02-07T03:12:59.031-05:00Comments on Blogenspiel: Periodization Long and PunchyAnother Damned Medievalisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05231085915472400163noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1126112901062036262005-09-07T13:08:00.000-04:002005-09-07T13:08:00.000-04:00Allodial land in Japanese history... very good que...Allodial land in Japanese history... very good question, because I don't know that I usually look at it that way. In theory, in the ritsuryo period (ancient) all land is taxed, and so are the people, and land is distributed and redistributed among the people. But salaries for the administrators and funding for temples came from assigned lands, which while (in theory again) were to be circulated around and redistributed, ended up as the basis for the estate system. Which estate system, with many revolutions, lasted until the 1600s (pre-Tokugawa)--while technically (legally) there was still "public" land, subject to a nationwide tax, in practice there probably wasn't any. (No one's yet really studied the local branches of the centralized bureaucracy once samurai governing organizations kick in, which is something we're working on now.) Then under Tokugawa you have a reorginization of the system, and the tax definitely goes national again and is based on land, not head. Not useful when you have a burgeoning urban and merchantile economy (which is why a lot of us put Tokugawa as early modern, I think), so monopolies in goods--like sugar, which was one of the basis of wealth for Satsuma, which was a major player in the Meiji Restoration--become economically more important. Authority in the Tokugawa is still Shogun to han to samurai "employees" of the han(with a separate, cultural sphere of authority where the court still had some power and the strict social separation legally imposed by the Tokugawa breaks down--there's a great recent book on this theme in Edo-period Japan, but I forget the title exactly--reminds me of the somewhat recent Masonic scandals in Britain). Technically. In theory anyway.<BR/><BR/>Feudal or not? I'm not sure, and the debate for the medieval side isn't really helping me decide yea or nay. (Since I look at periodization on the other side of things, from "ancient" to "medieval," it's rather of interest to me. Some people have even suggested putting the early modern in Japan around the late 14th century, because of urban and cultural factors--but then, China's "early modern" kind of begins in the Song, which begins in the 10th century, so.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1125975218764455002005-09-05T22:53:00.000-04:002005-09-05T22:53:00.000-04:00Yeah, I'm with y'all on the "defining everything i...Yeah, I'm with y'all on the "defining everything in terms of modern" bit. Did not know that about Japan, but I should also clarify, I suppose. I do think it's fair to say that the so-called F model only comes close to reality, and that's in two places: Early Norman England and Tokugawa Japan, because those are the only places (I can think of) where it is a top-down creation. And I'd still take both of those with a whopping helping of salt. <BR/><BR/>Although I am now wondering ... in either case, is there still allodial land, or is it all fiscal?Another Damned Medievalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05231085915472400163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1125941257427382962005-09-05T13:27:00.000-04:002005-09-05T13:27:00.000-04:00We don't like the word feudal in studying Japan ei...We don't like the word feudal in studying Japan either. Us pre-modernists (another nasty word) anyway. (Modernists tend to throw it around with abandon, but they're buying too much into Meiji agit-prop, I think.) Not even for Tokugawa.<BR/><BR/>But there were issues with Japanese slaves, actually. Nothing to the degree of what you saw in Africa or the Americas, but since we have Jesuit letters (and some Japanese sources too) deploring the practice of kidnapping Japanese to send to Portugal etc.... (Not to say that Japan and China didn't have their own slavers either, of course. But it was a bit of a surprise to learn about the more global issue.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1125935268132912592005-09-05T11:47:00.000-04:002005-09-05T11:47:00.000-04:00Yeah, absence of Eunuchs is definitely a problem!Yeah, absence of Eunuchs is definitely a problem!Another Damned Medievalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05231085915472400163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1125896281077305772005-09-05T00:58:00.000-04:002005-09-05T00:58:00.000-04:00This is like what I do when my students ask a ques...This is like what I do when my students ask a question in class. At the end of an answer, I always try to come back to the student and say "Does that answer your question?" (I had really bad experiences in college with instructors who would answer the question <I>they thought</I> you should have asked) and "Was that way more information than you wanted?".... usually the answer is yes. But the point that they take from it, I think, is that the history (as narrative) is in flux and there is still work to be done and insteresting questions.Jonathan Dresnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04356112719229675996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3671815.post-1125894763257563112005-09-05T00:32:00.000-04:002005-09-05T00:32:00.000-04:00Ok. My head is spinning now. The problem is that ...Ok. My head is spinning now. The problem is that this stuff sometimes runs through my head when I teach and I'm afraid to open my mouth and further confuse my students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com